{"contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}

Q&A on Alternative Medicine

NBC Nightly News' Mind-Body Connection series runs from May 5 to May 7.

This week on NBC Nightly News, we're presenting a series on alternative and complementary medicine called "The Mind-Body Connection," in which we take a look at growing trends such as medical clinics that look like high-end spas, the practice of Tai Chi and a new emphasis on "mindful eating."

I'll be available to answer some of your questions about the series this Thursday, May 8, from noon-2 pm ET. Please feel free to submit your questions here.

Disclaimer: I will not be providing medical advice - rather, I'll be offering some of the insight and perspective I've gained from my reporting.

For more information about each installment, see below:

MONDAY: Complementary Medicine: It's one of the fastest-growing trends in modern medical treatment and it's catching on around the country. I traveled to the largest center for such treatments in the US - Duke University Medical Center - which shows us all that modern mind-body connection medicine can be. Using hypnosis, meditation, massage, acupuncture and other holistic methods in conjunction with conventional treatments (chemotherapy, etc), patients face and experience their healing in a different way…and with results. We also looked into alleviating pain through non-traditional methods.

TUESDAY: Mindful Eating, or, How to make your meals a more sensory experience. Mindful eating is using your senses to retrain the way you eat what you eat. Nutritionists say this is a huge trend on the horizon and will revolutionize weight loss and maintenance . Government-supported research shows we can retrain ourselves. Its not a diet -- it's a change in one's relationship to food.

WEDNESDAY: Tai Chi. It may be a centuries-old practice, but it's finding modern-day devotees who swear the practice increases blood flow, promotes relaxation and helps alleviate pain. At the Integrative Medical Center at UC/Irvine, a Chinese-American former bio-physicist changed his professional focus in mid-life and now teaches patients the flowing and graceful movements now recommended by the Mayo Clinic and others to help people get stronger and live longer.

For those of you visiting us here for the first time, please know that Newsvine is an interactive web site designed for members to participate in thoughtful discussions about news-related topics. Feel free to take a look at the Newsvine Code of Honor, it's a short list of standards that existing members hold themselves to here.

{"contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
{"commentId":1772791,"authorDomain":"smackcover"}

Interesting. As a pharma rep for traditional remedies, I look forward to learning and reading your column.

{"commentId":1772791,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"smackcover"}
  • 4 votes
Reply#1 - Tue May 6, 2008 5:36 PM EDT
{"commentId":1779297,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

Thank you

{"commentId":1779297,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
  • 2 votes
#1.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
{"commentId":1780079,"authorDomain":"smackcover"}

You're quite welcome!

{"commentId":1780079,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"smackcover"}
  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 3:03 PM EDT
{"commentId":1773084,"authorDomain":"jfarnham"}

Where can I find more information on mindful eating? It really struck a chord with me.

{"commentId":1773084,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"jfarnham"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Tue May 6, 2008 7:02 PM EDT
{"commentId":1773123,"authorDomain":"smackcover"}

http://www.mindfuleating.org/MindfulEating.html

Check it out. Its pretty good.

{"commentId":1773123,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"smackcover"}
  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Tue May 6, 2008 7:16 PM EDT
{"commentId":1779304,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

The sites below look helpful. A can find the Duke program at www.dukeintegrativemedicine.org aand there is another site: www.bravewell.org

{"commentId":1779304,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
{"commentId":1773215,"authorDomain":"cynthiajoyce"}

You can also check out Bazell's reports from Nightly News here.

{"commentId":1773215,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"cynthiajoyce"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#3 - Tue May 6, 2008 7:55 PM EDT
{"commentId":1773537,"authorDomain":"TeddRi"}

Thanks Cynthia for that link as this is something I am trying to learn as much as I can these days as I recently found out that my Immunoglobulin G (IgG) levels are on the rather low end of normal and I need to be getting a little better of a bit to help out my immune system that is not working so well and Mindful Eating was actually one of the items that my doctor brought up today, so this is rather nice timing for me !

Looking forward to what you have to say Robert.

{"commentId":1773537,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"TeddRi"}
  • 3 votes
#3.1 - Tue May 6, 2008 10:08 PM EDT
{"commentId":1779313,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

I'm not a doctor and I can't give you advice about your immune sytem results, but I am glad you found the mindful eating segment useful

{"commentId":1779313,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
    #3.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
    {"commentId":1774225,"authorDomain":"davidjohnfleck"}
    DJ FleckDeleted
    {"commentId":1774268,"authorDomain":"caroleroach"}

    Thank you for the wonderful information Robert.

    {"commentId":1774268,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"caroleroach"}
    • 2 votes
    Reply#5 - Wed May 7, 2008 4:59 AM EDT
    {"commentId":1776324,"authorDomain":"TennesseeHypnosisCenter"}

    Mr. Bazell,

    I greatly appreciate your reporting skills and particularly enjoyed your report on Monday, May 5, 2008 that referenced the medical application of hypnosis and visualization.
    However, please be advised that hypnotism is not an alternative therapy. It has been considered as Complementary since being accepted by the AMA (American Medical Association) in 1956.

    The difference between alternative and complementary is significant and noteworthy. Complementary methods are typically intended to work with Western Medicine and not as an alternative to, or in place of Western Medicine. The National Institutes of Health even excludes Hypnotism from it's list of Alternative Therapies in it's research programs because it is accepted as being complementary to Western Medicine, even though they may still do studies on using hypnotism in therapy.

    As for being Complementary to Modern Western Medicine, hypnotism was in use thousands of years before ether was discovered for use as an anesthesia in surgery and it continues to be "re-discovered" for pre and post-operative management, resulting in less required medication, less anesthesia, faster recovery with less blood loss, less hospitalization time, increased comfort and less scarring.

    I appreciate that you may have several writers who prepare information for you, so I offer this comment to you as additional information in regard to the Complementary Medical use of hypnotism.

    Respectfully,

    R. Bayliss, CH, CI
    Specializing in Tinnitus Nashville, TN & Dallas, TX

    {"commentId":1776324,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"TennesseeHypnosisCenter"}
    • 4 votes
    Reply#6 - Wed May 7, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
    {"commentId":1779318,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

    You are absolutely right. The definitions of what is conventional and what is traditional can certainly be blurred. But if something is helpful --especially if it runs no risk of harm. What you you label does not matter much

    {"commentId":1779318,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
      #6.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:07 PM EDT
      {"commentId":1776778,"authorDomain":"NurseJill"}

      Two points to share: One on terminology & the other on CAM for PTSD prevention. Mr. Williams used the term 'traditional' to reference our modern Conventional/Western Medical approaches in introducing this series. After teaching 'Cultural Aspects of Health' and a course on 'Complementary & Integrative Modalities for Nurses' I have come to recognize 'traditional' describes our great grandmother's medicine: ancestral practices that included prayer, botanical/herbal preparations, Tai Chi and other rituals intended for healing. The Global community uses the term 'traditional' to describe the traditions of their ancestors so I have made an effort to do the same and avoid confusion. I wish to bring to your attention the collaborative research being done in by the Samueli Institute and the Dept of Defense to gather evidence regarding what will will help our vets recover from PTSD (CAMP PTSD Study group at Walter Reed, Fort Bliss Integrative Center in El Paso Tx, and the use of Guided Imagery - GIFT study for military sexual trauma - by J. Strauss at the V.A. in Durham NC). I am intrigued by the advances in brain research that show us the value of mind/body approaches to healing after trauma. Given the rates of PTSD among veterans, survivors of disasters & other traumas I believe we need to try new approaches. When one can be taught to view the body based symptoms of PTSD (hyper startle, hyper vigilence) in the context of a disregulated autonomic nervous system (see Trauma First Aide) you put the problem in a domain that soldiers know how to take action in - the body. Instead of training to be 'at the ready' you now train to settle the sympathetic response and bring forth parasympathetic (rest & digest) function to calm the hyperstartle response and hopefully restore the nervous system and normal sleep patterns. The basics of this approach is congruent with the teachings of Florence Nightingale who advised nurses to place the patient in the 'proper environment for nature to act upon him'. Conventional medicine still holds this phenomena in the domain of psychopathology (a scary place - no one wants to be labeled as 'crazy', especially people required to carry guns). I live in Louisiana between Katrina & Rita affected areas where NBC has done a fine job of keeping post hurricane related concerns in the news. After working as a community nurse/educator for 6 weeks in a mega-shelter, I have developed a deeper understanding on the effects of stress & trauma. I used many CAM tools extensively to help address this problem in our community and have joined with other nurses in an initiative called 'Ready 4 the Return' to teach this view to soldiers returning from war and first responders (Fire, EMTs, medics) whose services were strained in the wake of the hurricane response efforts. We view our work as a PTSD prevention model and I for one am grateful for the growing body of evidence that gives us new avenues to help us to return to a new normal.

      {"commentId":1776778,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"NurseJill"}
      • 2 votes
      Reply#7 - Wed May 7, 2008 4:53 PM EDT
      {"commentId":1778666,"authorDomain":"uncleandy"}

      NurseJill makes a good point on nomenclature of non-western therapies. Historically, western medical traditions have been stuck on the primes of Juan Ponce de Leon's quest to find the "Fountain of Youth;" or at the very least, poor health is when you don't feel or act like you did yesterday.

      Most of the non-western therapies mentioned in this report, so called Alternative Medicine, centers on the concept of maturing relatively pain and suffering free, by understanding the body, mind, and the aging process, and learning to work with this natural process, not against it. The problem with people who dismiss alternative medicine is that they want to go back to their days of youth, not understand where they are now, and how to get the maximum benefits of days to come.

      {"commentId":1778666,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"uncleandy"}
      • 1 vote
      #7.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 9:38 AM EDT
      {"commentId":1779320,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

      Same answer as I gave to the last question -- terminology is far less important than results

      {"commentId":1779320,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
        #7.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
        {"commentId":1777387,"authorDomain":"carmendrivera"}

        As for these "clinics" do they really work or is it consumer beware? I look foward to learning more.

        {"commentId":1777387,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"carmendrivera"}
          Reply#8 - Wed May 7, 2008 8:57 PM EDT
          {"commentId":1779331,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

          "Really work" is a tough term. If they make people feel better and do no harm, they work and if it is worth the money it works. There is a huge problem with trying to bring techniques that are not based on science models into medical centers that have prided themselves on their basis in science. It is still a work in progress

          {"commentId":1779331,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
            #8.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:10 PM EDT
            {"commentId":1777478,"authorDomain":"retuD2"}

            I must confess, I was disappointed in tonight's report. When I first heard that they were going to be doing a series of reports on the mind-body connection, I looked forward to learning useful information on various options, one of them being Tai Chi. Tonight's report seemed to focus primarily on some research involving electronic monitoring of a subject who was performing Tai Chi, and gave the distinct impression that the practice had little or no value based on those results.

            In an era when more and more people are aging and out of shape, and therefore less able to do other types of exercise, it would seem to be a valuable thing to show people the physical & mental benefits possible through the practice of Tai Chi and/or Qigong. I didn't feel that message came through in that report.

            And with medical costs soaring, it would be a valuable thing to do a report on other types of "non-traditional" healing, such as Reiki and Quantum Touch. I recently taught myself the basics of Quantum Touch using the book by Richard Gordon, and was amazed at how quickly and easily I was able to master the basic skills. If more people knew that they have the power to quickly and easily control pain using their minds instead of narcotics, our country could save a small fortune on pain meds, and we'd have far fewer people battling addiction problems. And for those who like more "scientific" approaches, bio-feedback is another way people can learn to use their minds to impact their health. I hope if these various methodologies are not already to be included in the Thursday and Friday segments of this series, you will consider looking into them in more depth for reports in the future.

            {"commentId":1777478,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"retuD2"}
            • 2 votes
            Reply#9 - Wed May 7, 2008 9:34 PM EDT
            {"commentId":1779350,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

            This was only a three part series. There are an an almost endless number of alternative medicine approaches. As one physician who specializes in pain treatment told me. Pain is the "elephant in the room" of medicine, often not dealt with. I have never heard of the approach you mention but if it works, and doesn't cost too much, that is wonderful

            {"commentId":1779350,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
              #9.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
              {"commentId":1778431,"authorDomain":"killfile"}

              The subtext to the entire notion of alternative medicine seems to be that main-stream medicine, for reasons of scientific elitism or closed-mindedness, rejects the benefits of these more traditional or less invasive remedies.

              After all, alternative medicine is only "alternative" if it is not embraced by main-stream medicine and it is only worth practicing if it yields results or is perceived to yield such results.

              I do not discount the placebo effect - the notion that because the patient thinks a treatments should do something that it does - but controlling for that, have there ever been any controlled studies that quantifiable demonstrate some benefit from something like Tai Chi or Mindful Eating that extends beyond the benefits of simple exercise and good diet?

              How much of this seems to be about legitimately helping the patient and how much is about creating and distinguishing a health care service brand?

              {"commentId":1778431,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"killfile"}
              • 5 votes
              Reply#10 - Thu May 8, 2008 8:16 AM EDT
              {"commentId":1778540,"authorDomain":"caroleroach"}

              I don't know of any controlled studies on the benefits or lack of, for Tai chi, but have practiced (with varying degrees of success) for some 15 years now. I do heal quickly and I know that I feel fantastic most of the time. Tai chi is a little like meditation in that you do have to concentrate on what you are doing ...it is at least four times harder than patting your head and rubbing your belly at the same time. While I am concentrating so hard on doing it, I am not worrying or being tense about anything, from the tip of the toe to the top of my head and everything in between. AND its so cheap. Of course I am going to take it every day until the end of my life.

              One American Dr went to China some years ago to have a look at some health practices there. The documentary showed the use of tai chi, acupuncture, meditation, hypnosis, and herbal remedies used alongside the more traditional medicine practiced within this large hospital. Fascinating information. I would have classed him as a giant sceptic initially but I am sure that he went home with newly opened eyes.

              On another level I am sure that I get what I expect.

              {"commentId":1778540,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"caroleroach"}
              • 3 votes
              #10.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 9:03 AM EDT
              {"commentId":1778784,"authorDomain":"killfile"}
              I don't know of any controlled studies on the benefits or lack of, for Tai chi, but have practiced (with varying degrees of success) for some 15 years now. I do heal quickly and I know that I feel fantastic most of the time.

              And that's great, but what I question is this: do you heal any better than you would if you were... say... swimming for 15 years? Certainly Tai chi beats the crap out of sitting around the house watching day-time soaps and mindful eating probably wins out over a Monster-Triple-Bypass-Thickburger.

              But the question is, are these techniques really demonstrably any better than getting some low impact exercise (Tai chi), a reasonably healthy diet (mindful eating), and taking a few minutes each day to relax and chill out (homeopathic tea)?

              Because I can almost guarantee you that you're paying a premium price at the clinic for some of this Eastern-minded mysticism. If it works for you, great, but a nice jog around the neighborhood with the dog followed by a salad with some grilled chicken and an afternoon cup of coffee while reading Newsvine will cost me less and very probably accomplish the same thing.

              {"commentId":1778784,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"killfile"}
              • 4 votes
              #10.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 10:10 AM EDT
              {"commentId":1779282,"authorDomain":"retuD2"}

              The only one of the techniques I personally have explored is Quantum Touch, and I have found it useful in easing common, everyday aches & pains, and accelerating my rate of healing by about half-- if I use it on a small cut, burn or bruise, my healing time is roughly half of what it will be if I don't. A cut or burn that would take me on average 6-7 days to heal with just a bandaid on it will heal in 2-4 days. A bruise that would take me 2 weeks to clear completely with no attention paid to it will clear in 1 week. I am fortunate in not having any serious health issues to contend with yet, but I have a friend with progressive organ failure who has found this useful in controlling pain that no longer responds to painkillers. I suspect I could be even better at using this technique if I could have afforded the nearly $300 it costs to attend one of their workshops to learn from a certified trainer, but my budget only allowed for the purchase of their book ($20). Fortunately I was able to teach myself enough to get started using just the book-- I hope one day to be able to attend a workshop to learn more. If you want to learn more about them (for free) check out their web site at quantumtouch.com.

              {"commentId":1779282,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"retuD2"}
                #10.3 - Thu May 8, 2008 11:58 AM EDT
                {"commentId":1779375,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                That is an astute observation. Many things like massage therapy or simply spending more time listening to a person who feels ill can clearly be helpful. A lot of the so called dichotomy between traditional and mainstream approaches has to do with just paying more attention to the patient as a human being -- and all too often physicians don't have the time

                {"commentId":1779375,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                • 1 vote
                #10.4 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
                {"commentId":1780186,"authorDomain":"njb"}

                I work in an organization whose primary purpose is to research CAM therapies.

                Some of them better than others--the placebo effect is huge for all therapies. Mainstream and alternative. I think the placebo rate for drug studies on traditional anti depressants is something like 50%?

                The research methods are trying and difficult, because you really can't use the gold standard double blind for most.

                I do have some pet peeves-the hucksters. Like the folks that charge you outrageous fees for an 'ionic footbath' --to suck the toxic metals out of your feet. Horse hockey. I have even seen some that say they can get pinworms out that way. In case you don't know--pinworms DO NOT come out of the feet...Gawd I could go on and on about the scams I have seen.

                There is a growing body of literature on the market based model of CAM care--I'll shut up now before this starts sounding like a rant.

                {"commentId":1780186,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"njb"}
                • 1 vote
                #10.5 - Thu May 8, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
                {"commentId":1778829,"authorDomain":"spiritualpath"}

                I would like to ask your findings regarding the benefits of Reiki healing
                Judith Vidal

                {"commentId":1778829,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"spiritualpath"}
                  Reply#11 - Thu May 8, 2008 10:18 AM EDT
                  {"commentId":1779379,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                  Sorry I don't know enough to comment

                  {"commentId":1779379,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                    #11.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
                    {"commentId":1780611,"authorDomain":"ontological"}

                    I met a man named Badger in the Sierra Madras once. He told me that I had powerful energy.

                    That's the extent of my experience with Reiki.

                    {"commentId":1780611,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"ontological"}
                      #11.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 5:33 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":1779034,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                      I'd love to hear your thoughts on green tea. I've been drinking it for years and it's been intersting to see how popular it's gotten in recent months with even nestea making some.

                      Does the sugar in most cold green tea outweight the benefits of the green tea? how about the gingko in it? And if gingko is for memory is that only helpful for older people (I'm 39)

                      {"commentId":1779034,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                      • 1 vote
                      Reply#12 - Thu May 8, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
                      {"commentId":1779387,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                      I love green tea myself. If you don't add sugar to it I can't imagine there would be enough to be harmful. And I doubt unleess ginko is added there would be much effect

                      {"commentId":1779387,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                      • 1 vote
                      #12.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:19 PM EDT
                      {"commentId":1786503,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                      Whew! I've been asked how I write so much here and the answer is green tea and chocolate. Glad to hear it's gotten your thumb(s) up.

                      {"commentId":1786503,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                        #12.2 - Sat May 10, 2008 2:36 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":1786731,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
                        I'd love to hear your thoughts on green tea. I've been drinking it for years and it's been intersting to see how popular it's gotten in recent months with even nestea making some.

                        The detoxifying effects of green tea have been recognised for centuries in Eastern medecine and as far as I know became an element for consideration in the traditional American research community less than a decade ago.

                        People using it to combat the effects of chemotherapy created a groundswell of support through anecdotal recommendations and the food sellers jumped on the bandwagon. The benefits are limited by the purity of potency of the product and no one sells the sizzle without the steak, better than American food giants.

                        I would caution you to look very carefully at the full list of ingredients though. Many are little more than high fructose corn syrup and water, with so little tea the only benefit is to the bottom line of the gmo corn growers and bottom line of the sellers. Labels are hugely misleading the fine print is where the partial truth of the marketing hype really shows far better what you're swallowing.

                        {"commentId":1786731,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
                        • 2 votes
                        #12.3 - Sat May 10, 2008 4:37 PM EDT
                        {"commentId":1786775,"authorDomain":"njb"}

                        Yes! And the same applies with herbals. A recent study, more than one actually, consistently finds that what the labels say are not always true. Since all these products are unregulated, you don't actually know what you are getting.

                        {"commentId":1786775,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"njb"}
                          #12.4 - Sat May 10, 2008 5:13 PM EDT
                          {"commentId":1787183,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}

                          Thanks, Pamela and njb, yes, I've noticed some green teas, especially the bottled ones, are high in sugar. I often water it down which has the effect of not only reducing the sugar intake level but making one cup last for two or three cups.

                          {"commentId":1787183,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
                            #12.5 - Sat May 10, 2008 8:57 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":1779052,"authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}

                            I find it curious that every time there is a mind-body article there is never a discussion on how an emotional state comes about, how a behavior comes about or what influence the subconscious has in regard to all of these issues.

                            There are many different methods talked about to externally affect an emotional state with mindful eating as the best example. You could have put the Geico cavemen in this segment and it would have seemed totally natural with the smelling and the licking of the food.

                            The only true Mind-Body connection will begin with how he subconscious works. One will never be able to assert true control unless one begins with what controls us to begin with.

                            Best,
                            Kelly Burris

                            {"commentId":1779052,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}
                            • 2 votes
                            Reply#13 - Thu May 8, 2008 11:07 AM EDT
                            {"commentId":1779396,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                            A few weeks ago I attended the annual meeting of the Society for Cognitive Neuroscience and it was fascinating to hear how these questions of perception and emotion remain front and center as researchers study the human brain. There are no easy answer to the fascinating issues you raise

                            {"commentId":1779396,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                            • 3 votes
                            #13.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":1779291,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                            Hello everybody. Thank your for your interest I am on live now for the next two hours. I will answer the questions as best I can in the order submitted so far and then get to any new ones

                            {"commentId":1779291,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                            • 1 vote
                            Reply#14 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
                            {"commentId":1779380,"authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}

                            Is there any reason why the subconscious is not addressed in the Mind-Body segments?

                            {"commentId":1779380,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}
                              #14.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
                              {"commentId":1779416,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                              As you see in my past posting, the subconscious is a tricky concept. Brain scientists and experimental psychologists argue about it. Clearly it can be involved in our reaction to any kind of treatment. But how? I sure do not know.

                              {"commentId":1779416,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                                #14.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
                                {"commentId":1779470,"authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}

                                I would be happy to send you information on a program that guides will guide you through the process of how the subconscious works if you feel it is important to understand this.

                                {"commentId":1779470,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"KellyBurris"}
                                  #14.3 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:37 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":1779407,"authorDomain":"lismcnl"}

                                  Dear Mr.Bazell,

                                  I think the segment on mindful eating was very good. Food can be a source of comfort when a person is stressed and sometimes too much of the wrong types of foods are eaten when this occurs. It is very important to do things in moderation instead of being too excessive towards one particular food. Diets can be restricting and not work for people because they don't stick to it. I think people can gain from mindful eating and actually become healthier. Also, I know someone who is always having pain in the joints and muscles and has to take medicine for the condition everyday. I am wondering if Tai Chi may help her joints to feel more relaxed and alleviate her pain. Medicine can help alot, but would this be good practice for her? I appreciate your time today in answering these questions Mr.Bazell.

                                  Thank you
                                  Lisa

                                  {"commentId":1779407,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"lismcnl"}
                                  • 1 vote
                                  Reply#15 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:23 PM EDT
                                  {"commentId":1779427,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                                  Thank you for your comments on mindful eating. As for whether Tai Chi would help someone in pain? If it is accessible to that person, they can afford it and it does not increase the pain, what is lost in trying?

                                  {"commentId":1779427,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                                    #15.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
                                    {"commentId":1780616,"authorDomain":"ontological"}

                                    I took a tai chi class for a semester. There were a lot of elderly folk there - some on oxygen machines. They all seemed to think it helped. All I know is that it made me vibrate for some time afterwards, most notably my hands.

                                    {"commentId":1780616,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"ontological"}
                                      #15.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 5:35 PM EDT
                                      {"commentId":1779609,"authorDomain":"ct38f"}
                                      CT-278107Expand Comment Comment collapsed by the community

                                      Your readers/viewers can find additional resources about mind-body medicine, Tai Chi, yoga, and CAM in general at the National Institutes of Health's National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM.NIH.GOV).

                                      {"commentId":1779609,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"ct38f"}
                                        Reply#16 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:14 PM EDT
                                        {"commentId":1779657,"authorDomain":"retuD2"}

                                        Since it is difficult to measure scientifically the results of many of these "mind-body" techniques, I would like to challenge you to do a little bit more in-depth research on the subject-- do more than just learn ABOUT them, learn TO DO them! The people who have learned to use various techniques such as Tai-Chi, Qigong & Yoga, as well as things like Reiki & Quantum Touch, all seem to believe they have gotten great benefit from their efforts. Do you think they are deluded? Imagining things? The very existence of the placebo effect is evidence that the mind plays a huge role in the ongoing process of the maintenance & repair of our bodies.

                                        The only way YOU will know and be able to report on their effectiveness, is if you have tried to do them yourself. So pick one, any one. Surely NBC will pick up the tab for you to start learning one of them. And in time, you will be able to present a more balanced report for us that can include the experiences of both teachers & practitioners, not just scientists. No disrespect for scientists, but there is much in life that cannot be measured by machines.

                                        {"commentId":1779657,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"retuD2"}
                                          Reply#17 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
                                          {"commentId":1779692,"authorDomain":"ggardner"}

                                          "Because I can almost guarantee you that you're paying a premium price at the clinic for some of this Eastern-minded mysticism. If it works for you, great, but a nice jog around the neighborhood ...will cost me less and very probably accomplish the same thing. "

                                          I have practiced T'ai Chi Ch'uan for about 12 years. The program is based through a non-profit organization and all of the teachers, myself included, are volunteers. While it is not free for students, it also is not expensive compared to many other fitness programs. We are guided by an internationally renowned Taiwanese teacher of our style of T'ai Chi, who lives in San Francisco.

                                          While I am sure many types of exercise can be beneficial, I think that T'ai Chi offers unique benefits because a good program provides specific, intensive training in releasing tension throughout the body in order to apply the "relax" principal while moving from one challenging posture to another. (The postures are often more challenging than they look because of requirements to place most or all of the body weight on one leg.) This is a healthful process that does not necessarily occur when you take a walk or go for a swim. Within a few months of starting T'ai Chi, my chronic tension headaches disappeared, and I had been doing a lot of other exercise prior to that.

                                          All this being said, it is a challenge to research the effects of T'ai Chi according to traditional Western methods, becasue there are many styles of T'ai Chi and any individual style may or may not be taught consistently from one school to another.

                                          {"commentId":1779692,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"ggardner"}
                                            Reply#18 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
                                            {"commentId":1779702,"authorDomain":"gorskon"}

                                            As a physician interested in science-based medicine, I truly dislike the entire concept of "alternative" medicine. It's more a marketing term than an informative one. There's medicine whose efficacy and safety have been validated by science and well-designed clinical trials; there's medicine that has not; and there is medicine for which the evidence doesn't exist or is conflicting. The whole "alternative" thing is a false dichotomy designed to allow unscientific medicine into the realm of traditional medicine, and your series shows that it appears to be working. Worse, perfectly acceptable areas of "conventional" medicine (nutrition, the use of diet to promote health, etc.) have been coopted by the "complementary and alternative medicine" (CAM) as somehow "alternative" when they are not. You can argue that perhaps "conventional" medicine didn't pay enough attention to these areas, but lumping them in with pseudoscience like homeopathy or spiritualism like reiki makes them look like pseudoscience too.

                                            When subjected to serious, well-designed scientific research, the vast majority of so-called "CAM" medicine only appear to work because of the placebo effect, as was so well documented by R. Barker Bausell's recent book "Snake Oil Science: The Truth About Complementary and Alternative Medicine." Can you tell me what CAM treatments, if any, work better than placebo and how do we know?

                                            Also, you may wish to refer to:

                                            {"commentId":1779702,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"gorskon"}
                                            • 1 vote
                                            Reply#19 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
                                            {"commentId":1779811,"authorDomain":"retuD2"}

                                            You seem to be thinking it's a case of one or the other. None of the CAM methods are intended to be a replacement for conventional or scientific medicine, just other options to be considered. Haven't you ever had a patient with acute or chronic pain that doesn't get relief from chemical treatments? What is the harm in encouraging that patient to seek other methods of achieving pain relief, especially when those other methods don't carry with them the risks of side effects and addictions that can come from narcotics & other pain meds? Whether you chalk it all up to the placebo effect or not, if a patient gets the relief he needs, does it really matter whether it is due to a sugar pill or meditation & exercise or spiritualism? Bottom line, does it really matter how you spell relief? All the patient will care about is that the pain has gone.

                                            {"commentId":1779811,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"retuD2"}
                                              #19.1 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:58 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":1780189,"authorDomain":"gorskon"}

                                              Here's the problem (actually two). The first is one of ethics: These "alternative" practitioners tell patients that they can help them through treatments that have no scientific basis (homeopathy, for instance, which is truly no more than a placebo) and then charge significant sums of money for it. As Dr. Bausell explains so well in "Snake Oil Science," placebo effects are generally not durable, leaving the patient to keep searching for new and "better" forms of "alternative" therapy. There's a reason why academic medical centers and other hospitals are starting to offer this stuff: It pays. Other than maybe acupuncture (which, by the way, the more studies I see the more I become convinced is also an elaborate placebo), most insurance companies don't pay for these modalities, meaning that it's cash on the barrelhead without all that pesky mucking about with insurance claim forms and pestering insurance companies to pay up.

                                              Second, the whole push for "integrative" medicine is a bit of a Trojan Horse. Why is it considered good to "integrate" nonscientific placebo medicine with known effective medicine? In no other applied science is that considered a good thing to do. (For instance, engineers don't "integrate" unscientific "alternative engineering" with their regular engineering when designing buildings.) What this tells me is that CAM is probably filling a void in medicine, and it's not too hard to figure out what that deficiency is: Time and caring. The current financial model of medicine has made it virtually impossible for physicians to spend a lot of time with each patient; so they go to CAM practitioners. "So what?" you ask. The problem is that the price of this embrace of CAM is to contaminate evidence-based medicine with all sorts of unscientific gibberish derived from prescientific societies. A better solution is to find a way to give patients that "personal" and "caring" touch without their having to resort to dubious modalities.

                                              {"commentId":1780189,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"gorskon"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.2 - Thu May 8, 2008 3:31 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":1780262,"authorDomain":"njb"}

                                              I have read more than one journal article about the underlying factors influencing the increase of CAM . On of the more interesting hypothesis relates the increase to the decrease in organized religion. I will have to look up the author, but off the top of my head--I think it might be Dworkin? He proposes that that people are looking for a new spirituality.

                                              I work with MD's, and many PhD researcher that study these therapies and have for years now--the most interesting work is coming out of basic science labs. But it is actually fairly mainstream.

                                              My problem is that people thing, for example-that yoga is the be all end all cure everything from back pain to emotional trauma.

                                              That being said--we do know that the body is complex, as the physical reactions to many things--i.e. stretching exercises causes a chemical release in the body from the muscles which have a certain effect. I have known many diabetics that managed to get their blood sugar under control by exercising. Daily. The man I think of chose riding a bike.

                                              I do think there is a complex relationship between social interactions and what goes on in our neuro chemistry.

                                              But--all in all, the methodology in much of the CAM research is flawed when you examine the results of systematic reviews.

                                              {"commentId":1780262,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"njb"}
                                              • 1 vote
                                              #19.3 - Thu May 8, 2008 3:54 PM EDT
                                              {"commentId":1779708,"authorDomain":"gorskon"}
                                              David GorskiDeleted
                                              {"commentId":1779720,"authorDomain":"editor-12"}

                                              Tai Chi is truly a multi-dimensional art. Modern scientific studies have shown Tai Chi (taiji) to improve balance, immune system, and relaxation, lower blood pressure, help with Parkinsons symptions, diabetes, arthritis, and many other problems. However, it is also an excellent lifetime health exercise, a martial arts practice, an "active" meditative discipline that helps focus body and mind, and is in addition, a window into Chinese culture and philosophy. Some farmers in the UK even claim that it increases the milk production of their cows! For more information and links to research you can visit our website at www.taijiquanjournal.com.

                                              Barbara Davis, MA
                                              Editor, Taijiquan Journal

                                              {"commentId":1779720,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"editor-12"}
                                                Reply#21 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:41 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":1779735,"authorDomain":"gorskon"}

                                                "That is an astute observation. Many things like massage therapy or simply spending more time listening to a person who feels ill can clearly be helpful. A lot of the so called dichotomy between traditional and mainstream approaches has to do with just paying more attention to the patient as a human being -- and all too often physicians don't have the time"

                                                And that's exactly what appears to be going on with a lot of this:

                                                {"commentId":1779735,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"gorskon"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#22 - Thu May 8, 2008 1:44 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":1779740,"authorDomain":"gorskon"}
                                                David GorskiDeleted
                                                {"commentId":1779832,"authorDomain":"bazell"}

                                                Time is up. Thanks for your comments. I look forward to my next Newsvine exchange

                                                {"commentId":1779832,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"bazell"}
                                                • 2 votes
                                                Reply#24 - Thu May 8, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":1780833,"authorDomain":"tang"}

                                                David Gorski, please see the Code of Honor #2.

                                                {"commentId":1780833,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"tang"}
                                                • 1 vote
                                                Reply#25 - Thu May 8, 2008 6:51 PM EDT
                                                {"commentId":1781479,"authorDomain":"Brassection"}

                                                Mr. Bazell: I'm looking forward to more information. I can tell you that the ancient egyptians can't be left out of the equation,so far as some of the origins of medical practice. Since many of therapies in use in "alternative medicine may have originated there, some research ought to given consideration to this in conjuction with what has been discussed. On the walls of the tomb of King Seti the first, there are inscriptions that outline meditation,yoga postures and other componets of mind-body or healthful living .You can this information at www.egyptianyoga.com

                                                {"commentId":1781479,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"Brassection"}
                                                  Reply#26 - Thu May 8, 2008 11:27 PM EDT
                                                  {"commentId":1801253,"authorDomain":"knh"}

                                                  I have long been interested in the mind body connection and read as much as I can on the subject. I will be interested in your writing about studies or if something is really helpful other than generically. I guess I wonder if it can make a huge difference or if it's mainly adjutant, but not curative. Like yoga, which I do, is certainly good for muscle control and balance, but am not sure it actually benefits disease control (as I get older.)

                                                  I know you can't give out medical advice but new studies or articles are always of interest to me. Thank you.

                                                  {"commentId":1801253,"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543","authorDomain":"knh"}
                                                    Reply#27 - Wed May 14, 2008 8:42 PM EDT
                                                    {"threadId":"260665","contentId":"1472543"}
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